Bright Sighted is an Award-Winning Network of Podcasts Showcasing Stories of Human Perseverance. Founded by Journalists in 2018.



Moonbeam CEO: "It's like TikTok for Podcasters"


Mike Chambers



Bright Sighted Podcasting


Christine O'Donnell

Assistant Producer


CEO of Moonbeam Mike Chambers says TikTok’s “democratized discovery” system inspired him and friend Paul English (co-founder of Kayak) to create a new discovery app for podcasters. For the most part, podcasters who aren’t backed by big production companies or who don’t have tons of money to invest in advertising struggle to grow their audience. Chambers says, with Moonbeam “It doesn’t matter if you are some kid in your basement in Iowa, your ability to get discovery is influenced by your ability to resonate with people.”

it’s like i can’t i can’t get out like he’s here i was like what do you mean and then the next thing you know she uh let out a war cry and delivered our son herself in the backseat of my truck as i stood there white is a ghost standing next to the ballet guy and some poor guy who uh had like a sprained finger that new dad of three is mike chambers he’s the co-founder of the brand new podcast discovery app moonbeam which is claiming to be a lot like tick-tock leveling the field for indie creators welcome to podcast coaching with christine each week i interview someone who has an exceptional story and talent to help independent podcasters grow their shows hello and welcome back to the latest season of podcast coaching with christine my name is christine o’donnell i’m an emmy nominated tv journalist and podcast coach i am also the founder of bright sided podcasting a podcast production and consulting company so what’s going on this season this season i’m going to have a number of interviews from people inside the podcasting space so if you are a podcaster hi you’re listening or you’re watching on youtube what i want you to know is that i am making it my mission to figure out how the industry is working so that you can do your very best to develop and grow an amazing show that is meaningful to your audience so thank you for being here and if you have suggestions for what you would like for me to cover in this program be sure to fill out the survey that is in the show notes and also on my website so i can really make sure that this content is what you need to develop and grow your show so um there’s going to be a mix of interviews and there’s also going to be some solo episodes with yours truly talking about some of the things that i’ve learned in this space and i’m also going to be sharing some personal stories about podcasting about my time in the tv news business so what’s going on in this episode today you are going to hear from the ceo of moonbeam this is a new app that intends to be the home of podcast discovery while creating a tick tock like experience so myself and mike chambers who is the ceo of moonbeam we talk about how podcasters can go viral through this app we talk about how to pick the right clip for yourself in this app this app is kind of like a mix between headliner and tick tock and it actually looks like it’s he’s hoping for it to be a home for people to start listening to many episodes of podcasts so let me know what you think about that because i am i’m really interested to see how this app plays out in the months to come we talk about his curation team and how you can personally reach out to them and they can create clips on your behalf for your podcast which i think is super helpful especially when so many of us podcasters might feel a little bit tapped out of putting our shows out there in all of the places we talk about that and we also talk about as you heard is his the latest member to join his family his wife just had their third child and she sounds like a total rock star and i’m so glad he shared that story with us because wow what what what a journey there on um okay so before we dive into this week’s episode i want to share a little bit more about a bright cider of the week so hello to all my brightsiders listening and i’m going to shout out jessica mckinley and jessica she’s already been shouted out in last week’s newsletter but i want to shout her out here in this podcast episode because her show is just so incredible and i think that a lot of the podcasters who are listening may enjoy her show as well jessica is the host of sincerely future you it is a podcast for female entrepreneurs looking to scale their business by mastering their time money and drama each week jessica who is also the founder of what’s happening coaching helps ambitious women make decisions today with the future you in mind which is just such an interesting concept making decisions today for your future self jessica mckinley thank you so much for being a member of the bright sided community and for being our bright cider of the week if you are someone if podcasts are out there right now who is wishing you had a community to talk about your show with to learn more about the podcasting space space with to get more reviews if you’d like monetization tips check out the brightsided community i will put a link to it in my show notes right uh attached to this episode so without further ado let’s dive into this week’s episode hi mike thank you for being on my show how are you i’m doing very well thank you so much for having me thank you for being here yeah thank you for being here so you guys mike was just sharing with me this crazy story about how he has just become a father of three um and you know i’m a mom so i just i love hearing these stories and i recently you know had my second a year ago which just like feels recently but mike tell me what do you mind re-sharing what happened sure yeah so um you know my wife and i uh you know we’ve got we had uh our first son max back in 2018 uh our daughter live in 2019 so pretty close together only about 18 months apart um and we always knew we’re gonna have three and and uh you know my wife uh finally had our third just a couple weeks ago now but in the most epic of fashion so for the first two childbirths uh you know my wife had an epidural and she was uh really looking to have a natural childbirth for the third um and so we hired a doula we went through this whole process you know and one of the first questions i asked the doula you know i’m very like you know when it comes to stuff like this i’m like typically pretty direct and not not in not in a rude way but like really just want to have all the information i can and i asked her i was just like you know what qualifies you to know when we should go to the hospital right because the whole sort of point around this natural childbirth is like you need to labor at home for as long as possible set yourself up to be successful so she was like you know this is what we trained for and she gave me like a bunch of like telltale signs and i was like great long story short um you know my wife went into labor we had the doula come over and she was progressing you know at a pretty standard rate um but getting getting close uh and like all these like telltale signs that the doula had mentioned we were sort of passing but yet not really doing anything um and uh so finally my wife was like we just need to go now and of course this was all happening around rush hour uh and um you know i’m the driver the doula is staying at home with the kids while we’re driving in

until my parents get there and and so um we finally after just like horrific traffic pull into the er uh just like into the little roundabout there i run inside there was this like no one there there’s like this little like volunteer 85 year old candy striper there who was like wondering why i was yelling at her um and i go back outside and to see my wife in the backseat of my of my truck and she was like mike like it’s like i can’t i can’t get out like he’s here i was like what do you mean and then the next thing you know she let out you know a war cry and delivered delivered our son herself in the backseat of my truck as i stood there white as a ghost standing next to the ballet guy and some poor guy who uh had like a sprained finger he was like so um that’s when my son miles was born miles is in no way a correlation between the car thing it just happened to be the name that we’re calling him and um yeah so he’s gonna be three weeks in uh on wednesday and it was uh one hell of an adventure becoming a dad of three what did your wife say about that experience like what were her words after he’s here she’s got a very good sense of humor um and even in the most extreme circumstances so one i just want to say like man it was like the most inspiring incredible thing to witness her go through this it was everything from like the planning to the actual like execution of it just it was it was amazing um but she was every bit as surprised as i was but like trying to hold it together i think you know as much as possible we were recognized how serious it was i mean fortunately he wasn’t fortunate we were in the parking lot of the hospital i mean they had a you know they had a an overhead alert go off you know ob ob emergency in the parking lot and everyone came out very shortly afterwards but um anyways that that is why we had to reschedule our uh first recording of this episode yeah that’s true we were we were planning to do the recording on that same day and miles came early right no he was actually a couple days late but yeah i mean i just like with the other two i just like scheduled meetings and just with the understanding that it might not happen and it might happen otherwise you’re just kind of in this weird waiting period you know what did the doula say she have any follow-up yeah so way to go definitely she’s pretty upset about the whole situation i think she was pretty disappointed that it all went down that way she showed up uh shortly afterwards and got us coffee and breakfast sandwiches and then and then went home um but yeah i mean i think you know it’s an interesting world that whole like the whole world of doulas is interesting to me i still don’t really know much about it i’m it’s seemingly a very very important like job that that person has if someone’s sort of placing their trust in them to tell them when to go and get access to you know medical professionals um so i am curious you know i i i think i think it’s probably hard to understand like to really know what was happening but there were some like really telltale things that were happening throughout that we’re like yeah it’s probably time to go um that we didn’t necessarily listen to which in hindsight uh i take personal responsibility for just not knowing myself i probably should just educate myself on it well childbirth is crazy it can happen really fast um with our last one um i it ha i got to the hospital an hour before she arrived and i like got like it was just like really fast i also managed to still get an epidural like it managed but i had wanted to not do that and then i was like i’m crazy i’m not doing this i’m getting to the part i definitely don’t want to feel it’s interesting my wife described it as like she just didn’t you just don’t know how long that you’re gonna be how long that pain is gonna last like you could it could be hours it could be minutes but like that’s really ultimately why i think they advocate for this home childbirth because it was not childbirth but laboring at home for as long as possible just because you know you don’t have the option there right yeah um but man yeah i mean it was a complete opposite of the other two the other two we were like checked into the hospital like long before we had eight hours of like sleeping resting and then a doctor came in and woke us up and they were like it’s time but yeah oh that’s nice it’s time you’re a hundred percent or you’re ten 100 percentile at 10 10 centimeters um if you did it you’re probably sleep deprived right now and i’m gonna ask you some questions about moonbeam let’s do it i love it oh great um so moonbeam intends to be from at least what i’ve read here the home of podcast discovery while creating a tick-tock-like experience you’re the co-founder of this company how did this come to you yeah so um my partner and i my partner is a guy by the name of paul english he’s the co-founder of and several other companies um and we started an organization together back in 2014 down in haiti called summits education we run a network of schools down there we have around 42 primary schools down in haiti and in the course of building that organization had countless trips together back and forth uh back and forth to haiti from boston where i was living at the time um and on that journey we really became uh podcast junkies i mean we were it was around the time serial came out and kimlin media launched startup and like there was all this like really great content and it was just such an exciting way to like learn on the go right it was it was a really fun tool for us um and it was really around you know 2018 um i stepped down i i started i i started another production company in film but paul and i had been talking about this sort of issue that we were experiencing as podcast consumers of just it being incredibly challenging to find good content um there was a lot of shows that we knew we loved like there was a lot of great content but it was becoming increasingly difficult as more and more shows came out um to identify you know shows that we liked uh and so we would like turn to you know facebook at the time or twitter or you know social media and like it was just it was kind of an interesting thing so last year a year and a half ago paul and i started talking about this again and decided that we were gonna we were gonna do something about it um the concept behind moonbeam is really largely inspired by um you know by tick tock so tick tock developed this you know sort of concept of like democracy democratized discovery or like equitable discovery whereby it doesn’t matter if you’re some kid in your parent’s basement in iowa or you’re a hollywood you know you have a hollywood production budget your ability to get discovered has not influenced by like your budgets or your influence or your celebrity but it’s purely uh influenced by like your ability to resonate with people and so it’s just it or or peop you know and people’s ability to find you right so um it’s this sort of level platform level playing field for discovery um and so uh you know as we started sort of diving into this more more and more we realized we initially approached this as you know a problem that we were experiencing as consumers but we also realized in talking to a lot of hosts and particularly independent creators that this was a major pain point for them so there’s really sort of two sides to this problem as consumers and as creators um with apple and spotify like really battling battling it out right now to become the home of big budget audio smaller independent podcast creators are really having a hard time sure you even experience this you know with your show like it’s really hard to break up right it’s really really hard to get discovered so we launched our product in on back in june and essentially the idea is um consumers have the ability to scroll through a personalized audio feed of podcast highlights based on who they are as a listener so we all of all of the the main audio feed in boom beam in the mobile app is backed by a recommender system and gets to know who you are as a listener and over time is recommending stronger better and better content based on who you are um on the creator side we’ve given hosts to all the tools they need to be able to create and control all the content that appears in the app so hosts have the ability to log on to the web console they can create clips they can um we also have a team of curators that are creating clips as well so if they have clips already from their show on the app they can they can decide what they want to do with them they can edit them they can you know do anything they want um so we launched back in june we’ve got around 15 000 users uh on the mobile app already and we have uh somewhere around 600 hosts that have signed up for the console and really the hosts that have signed up for the console are all just they’re they’re they’re independent creators who are just like feeling this crunch like they’re dedicated to their their show they’re they’re really excited about what they’re doing they just they don’t they’re they’re sort of throwing their hands up in the air with respect to um you know how they’re going to continue to grow their audience you talked about a recommender system and i was curious what this recommender system is and how it works and if it has to do with looking at people’s ip addresses or perhaps even the information google knows about us like how does recommender it’s all based on our recommender system is all based on your interaction with our app and the shows that you’re subscribed to so we have all these different data points uh spread across the product that we are collecting as you use the product based on listen time of a particular clip or a particular show based on shows you’re subscribed to based on topics you tell us you’re interested in based on shows you’re searching this is all being gathered to be able to ultimately give you better recommendations okay so the recommender system is based on the user who is the podcast listener who signs up and say they like to listen to entrepreneur type or business type podcast they would select that and then they would be given access to short clips is this similar to what pods is doing sorry to create channels based on particular shows so or based on particular topics that you like so say you’re interested in learning about cryptocurrency you can create a channel based on that and then you’ll see a feed of clips that are all about cryptocurrency the main feed though however is a collection of all of the all of the it’s it’s basically a feed of highlights that are um being recommended to you based on who you are as a listener so that the you can create channels and that would not be influenced by the recommender system but the main feed is all influenced by um by this recommender system and honestly like it can make recommendations better than better than your friends right like uh all these little things that you’re doing while you’re interacting with the app are giving us tons of data for us to be able to ultimately leverage um and put you on to to shows and clips in this context um that you may not even realize that you like um but that you do that you actually find quite interesting so if i am searching for cryptocurrency but it turns out i also really like crime will this app know that i secretly like crime even though i never said anything about it based on like indicated in any way shape or form that you like crime podcasts it won’t know um but the idea is as you’re scrolling through this main feed you you don’t realize what you’re doing but you actually may be listening to one clip slightly longer than another clip or you might interact with one clip in a certain way you might share it you might like it you might subscribe you might click through and you know learn more about the show or see see you know learn about the host um so as you’re doing all these things that’s the data that we’re ultimately leveraging to help uh help make the recommendations better and these are completely audio clips there’s no video associated currently they’re all audio based that’s correct do you plan to change that uh maybe at some stage we’re we’re uh still looking into this so i do think uh audio our video is really interesting a lot of really you know obviously you know uh there’s a lot of opportunity there we’re seeing a lot of growth with video and podcasting youtube has obviously become a huge platform and a huge tool for a lot of independent creators to help get discovered it’s funny to me that you know creators have to turn to all these platforms and do things like this um i think the reason for that is because we just don’t have a platform that addresses their needs yet and that’s why they’re sort of scattered right now across all these platforms trying to figure out these things so how would an independent podcaster go viral on moonbeam like they might go viral on tick-tock that’s that’s a good question so we’re we obviously just we obviously just launched right we don’t have millions of users like tick tock does we’re still refining and we’re iterating and we’re continuing to improve upon the product over time we envision moonbeam as the place where people are going to go when they have the question you know what should i listen to next this this is going to be a very easy and quick way for them to be able to scroll through content based on their interests and then find a great show to listen to in addition to that it’s also going to just be a great place for you to consume short form audio and that’s something that we’re really excited about as well so you know discovery becomes a secondary effect of just hearing really great audio um and um so over time you know as we continue to develop our user base um you will be able to go viral you know on moonbeam much like you are on on these other platforms we’ll have uh you know some very similar sort of functionality um i’m gonna like call out somebody i started following recently on um tick tock who is just like a motivational speaker kind of but she’s like just silly and weird and fun and i just really enjoy um her high kicks and her sense of humor and her name is zozo rowe and she’s from a small town in illinois and she’s just like gone from like zero following to having a huge following and she was just at the vmas last night and she’s like what is my life right now um and how did this happen how are all of these opportunities coming my way is that the kind of story you hope to tell about creators the the idea here that like there’s only this like you need to have massive budgets for your your program in order to have like a really good podcast is crazy to me right like there’s nuggets that are happening in all of these shows that are really valuable for people they just never hear them um so surfacing those for users based on what they’ve told us they like uh is a really easy way for us to help that sort of virality component yeah um is there is there somebody you like listening to right now um i i have a ton of different shows i’m subscribed to let me let me pull this let me pull this up this is always a dangerous question for me well i mean a new parent too like i started listening to all of the conspiracy theories

yeah it wasn’t sleep deprived i was like i believe now you know there’s it depends it really kind of depends on uh i i started listening to the new elizabeth holmes uh um which is not an independent show i know that uh which i’m drawing a blank on the name of it um and then there’s like yeah i mean there’s a there’s so many shows it depends on the mood i’m in you know if uh you know i really like masters of scale with reid hoffman i like uh you know uh conversations with coleman it’s fun um yeah i mean there’s there’s just a bunch of shows that i listen to a good friend of mine has a show called rancho which is a really cool podcast about um addiction and recovery and stuff which is really interesting in the outdoors so yeah it just kind of depends on the mood i also find myself honestly i really uh and i’m not alone in this i know because edison has some data around you know podcast listener listeners uh listener behavior and in general i think it’s somewhere around 60 of podcast listeners feel like podcasts are too long um which is not really surprising when you when you look at like the data right so the average podcast length is somewhere around like 55 minutes like you’re gonna have to correct me yeah i think that was the original data from like 2018 2019 yeah yeah and then the um i i think the most common use case right is commuting right so the average commute is like 28 minutes or something like that though this is the state has been affected obviously by covin um that’s changed but it’s really interesting like i i do find myself oftentimes like stomping in the middle of a show and then like having to pick up later um what i like about like the way that we’ve structured beam and in the direction that we’re heading here and beam is the sort of main feed is that these clips are designed to provide standalone value they’re 10 minutes or less um so you can either not you can either just listen to this feed and like have derived some sort of value from having heard this like snippet or you can jump in uh you know jump into full episode listening um so i think that some podcasters some indie creators feel a little bit lost when it comes to how to pick the right clip that’s gonna go viral yeah um do you and i think that’s something that some of the bigger shows that have like the exterior experienced producers and journalists and like entertainment people who’ve been working in this industry for a long time like they get it yep um do you have any thoughts just maybe on the top of your head like something that would likely go viral on so we’ve seen with like the clips the guidance that we’re giving to the creators that are reaching out to us is like um in general like it has to be somewhat provocative if you really want it to go viral and it has to provide some sort of either insight or joke or moment of education like there has to be an actual tangible morsel of value in that like clip it can’t just be a random snippet from you know a random snippet that is really hard to understand without context like you really need to search and not just search but like intentionally like find or produce these moments in your show when you’re creating your show that are that are exciting that are you know sensational that are um energetic you know that’s the type of stuff that ultimately people are going to hook on to and and uh and want to come learn more about you i really like that word provocative because i think sometimes people think oh i’m going to post something that’s super valuable that like is educated and educational morsel um which is great they might listen to that educational morsel and never look for more but if you post something provocative like the moment the guest on your show’s wife is saying he’s here he’s delivering a baby in the car and this is why i was like i know she’s going to want to hear this i’m happy to give it to her because there’s her by i mean honestly like but that’s exactly right like it’s something that happens in your show and you need to make this happen in your show as the host that is like going to bring people in right and they they’re going to want to continue listening um you know the content the content in moonbeam we’re identifying that we have a team of curators we also our creators are creating their own content right now um but really that’s the kind of charter that they’ve been given is to really search for this like sensational provocative moment that’s really going to hook people um and that’s ultimately the end goal i would almost say that that’s maybe the blooper for some indie podcasters you might be like oh that’s the mistake that i have to edit out yeah no no i think that’s the problem with a lot of independent creators independent podcast tests and i use creators and podcast hosts interchangeably but like yeah i mean i think like um even if the content is serious like you gotta have fun a little bit you’ve gotta you’ve gotta be a little bit lighthearted you’ve gotta um you’ve gotta like you know open yourself up for some of these moments because there’s a lot of serious content out there right it’s not just you don’t have to be a comedian you i mean that’s not that doesn’t that’s not necessarily it but you just have to like allow open the open the door for these moments to like present themselves and i i know it can be tricky um and this is you know it’s about trial and error right just like try try a couple things ask some provocative questions like you know stuff like that yeah but i mean it’s interesting you know i i will i just want to add one more thing here like when you think about like when you think about how discovery is being done right now more often than not like you have sort of social discovery on social media and like friends recommending things and then you have like these like endless directories right you have the spotify directories it’s like going to blockbuster or like going to an old video rental store you end up like looking at the show art and then reading some text then making a decision as to whether or not you want to listen to it based on kind of no information you know maybe you look at some reviews and ratings um it’s crazy to me that like you know this had this like concept of like highlights or short form content hasn’t really permeated the industry in a more meaningful way today when like you look at video when you look at even just like written text like it’s very it’s it’s kind of universal that like to to understand whether or not you want to listen to something you have to listen to it right like you have to get a sense as to whether or not you like the host or whether or not you um you know can you’re interested in the content and uh it’s you with only maybe five seconds of someone’s attention span if you if you’re starting them off by you know you know with a long show opening or like you know uh you know music or like you know ads or anything like that you know especially the way podcasts are structured right now you’re not going to really necessarily have much success with that so one of the tools beyond just using a product like boom beam is to really surface this moment and put it right at the beginning of the show knowing that like you have this very limited window to get people’s attention yeah i i agree i also um think meeting people where they’re at is helpful like if you are hosting a show and and maybe you’re not super experienced picturing that you’re talking to someone um instead of just feeling completely alone maybe with the microphone picture someone’s there if you’re talking to them say their name if you need to interact with people in such a more meaningful way when they’re in front of you so like physically in front of you so that’s really good feedback i think as well yeah yeah that’s that’s true i actually find that if i’m doing something live like there’s a whole other level of christine that comes out totally yeah hands are going you know yeah welcome

um okay couple more questions for you um you said team of curators that you have right now so would you suggest that someone who’s new to the app who’s an indie podcaster reach out to your team of curators to see if they may be able to get featured absolutely yeah so definitely reach out to our team of curators we can help you with the clip creation process we can help you um we can even create some clips for you uh and the ability right now the um ability to get featured really is solely is solely it like i said at the onset you know it’s this it’s an equitable platform right so if we see some people start to like your content or listen for a longer period of time more people are going to see that over and over so your incentive is to try and create the best content you possibly can more content isn’t necessarily better right so having 20 clips in there is not necessarily the end goal uh the end goal would be to just have a few really powerful moments that you know are a really good representation of the show you know that if you were scrolling through and you heard you’d want to jump in and hear more um be the recommendation so i love the idea of having some curators create some stuff for you um and here’s why like one i think that it might help guide people to the good clips in their show and they’ll be like hey someone listened one two um i think indie podcasters feel a little tapped out of reap like creating clips to repurpose their content so i love that you can edit completely within the app i think that’s super helpful instead of like creating all these like audiograms other places um

is there anything that you would want to share with indie podcasters who feel tapped out of like feeling like they have to be we’re coming forward we’re coming for you all right we’ve got a lifeline we’re coming for no in all seriousness um this is a this is the exact sort of sentiment that people have expressed to me throughout my journey of getting this up and running you know we’ve just heard from folks that there’s just so many things that they need to do to create a podcast to manage all these different platforms and all these different things and hear audio it’s just too much right and meanwhile they are not getting discovered they have no ability to manage their community and forget about monetizing like that’s like just not even a possibility right so the way in which we’re sort of trying to position moonbeam moving forward here is like we really want to be that one platform where everything can be done and be done very easily uh particularly for this independent podcast or demographic we’re not interested in in these sort of big budget shows we’re really interested in this in this uh sort of long tail if you will and what that’ll look like is it is a web platform that provides hosts with all the tools and all the features they need to get discovered and grow their audience to build and manage community and learn about their listeners i think one of the things that is frustrating from independent creators is they have no idea who’s listening to their show they have no idea they have very limited stats they don’t actually have any ability to contact these people so they go to these other platforms to try and manage and build community it’s very low conversion having all that stuff directly in the place where people are consuming the content so that means like the ability to send your subscribers messages the ability to learn more about what your listeners like and what they don’t like all those community features and then third is um uh what we call sort of high conversion monetization features so um as an independent creator like ads aren’t really a viable monetization you know tool yet right so once you are able to build an audience to a certain uh to a certain point it becomes viable but in the interim is there any there are a whole bunch of ways that you could you could start to monetize your content assuming that you have a very small sort of micro community that really does indeed engage with your content um the problem right now is like again this is like low conversion things like you go over to patreon you’re sending people over to a third-party platform you are you know maybe having some sort of subscription newsletter or some something like these all these things that are really kind of low conversion so i i’ve never understood why um all of these sort of monetization features are not built directly into the ui where people are consuming the actual content and so we’re really i’m not going to go into too much detail on what that looks like but we’re going to have a handful of very tangible high conversion monetization features for creators on our platform that will be launching out here over the coming months that’s awesome to hear that i actually had an audience question and the question was will moonbeam have the ability for podcasters to monetize so oh yeah there you go and there’s there’s some really interesting ones that we’re looking into but um but we have we have a few that are going to be launched in the coming months here that are that are really exciting um i wanted to play a name association game with you and hopefully it will be really exciting and maybe provocative um

all the provocativeness provocate whatever it is yeah they call me the provocateur

um so what uh okay so i’m going to just name say some names of like perhaps some other podcast apps that are out there which also claim to help with podcast discovery i’d love to know what you think so if you want to share in one to three words what comes to mind after i say this in trouble well i mean just like say bananas if you don’t want to say anything at all okay pods uh

short they were pods was a pod i i can’t just do two words i’m sorry okay go go go sorry paz developed a great product they uh they it was a beautiful ui beautiful ux it was it was really impressive the trouble with pods was their content was uh ai generated and very rarely offered any sort of value in terms of helping people understand whether or not they liked the show it was designed as a random snippet from an episode that was 60 seconds or less it was really hard to understand what was happening right so this is where you know the technology to create you know clips using ai is not quite there yet and i’m sure that they’re going to continue to develop it under spotify um but this is where the human curation element and giving creators the ability to control the content really comes in so i see uh the content in pods not not being valuable enough really necessarily to aid in discovery clubhouse

uh i think clubhouse is a bit of a fad um i do think that there’s some value i think we’ll see elements of clubhouse around for a while but i think it’s gonna be hard for clubhouse to continue uh with just all the action in that space right now with twitter and there’s so many players right now it’s gonna be challenging it is a lot there are a lot of players um by your side i haven’t used that product so uh this is cuban’s mark cubans thing mm-hmm so i i don’t think i can add a lot of value i haven’t used it yet okay um how fireside works is it supposed to create audience engagements like live listening

yeah i haven’t used it either but there’s it’s an interesting concept like live live podcasting i mean we’ve really come full circle with radio at this stage it’s an interesting concept yeah i mean i i think that’ll definitely uh enable more sort of interaction which is good podchaser they’re great we love podcaster we’re partnered with podcaster uh we love those guys chart of all charitable’s great as well i think uh what charitable’s doing is is really great um yeah perfect is there any i didn’t mention that you’d like to comment on um

no i mean i i i just want to say this there’s there’s clearly a lot of activity in this space right now and i think as as a community as an industry we should all be incredibly excited you know i think we’re only in the first inning right now with audio with respect to this sort of whole podcast or audio renaissance and there’s a lot of work that needs to be done there’s a lot of big problems that need to be solved um and discovery i think is is where the where we should really be kind of focusing our energy because that’s sort of uh you know predicating all these other problems um um so that’s why you know we’re really focused on that but i’m i’m excited to be a part of this industry right now i think there’s a lot of great people you know good pods is another company uh with they’re really sort of leaning into social discovery i think they’re doing great work uh headliner was really the kind of ogs of uh you know the og of uh you know kind of clip creation um which is great it’s exciting to see what they’re doing so you know there’s definitely a lot of products out there that are that are starting to push the envelope with respect to innovation and that’s exciting to see well beam or moon beam will it be like called beam you think more than moon beam well beam is our main feature we’ll see we’ll see there’s some conversations i had a feeling um so will moonbeam um be similar to headliner and after you create it create a clip you can download it and then repurpose it other places maybe like a moonbeam logo so even in the app if you just click share you can download the video and it’ll it’ll download an audiogram for you of that particular clip um so you you can just go to your show page right now chances are we might already have a clip from your show and you can download that right away right from the app um but also you’ll have this functionality yourself on the console once you’ve cleaned your show um perfect thank you this is wonderful mikey mike mike you mikey you are awesome thank you for taking the time to share with me today i know that you’re super busy you’ve got those three kids are they all home are they uh my son’s in school and the other two are at home okay well is there anything that i didn’t ask that you would like to share with the audience no i just hope everyone goes and checks out you know moonbeam in the app store or in google play and and uh if you guys you know have a show and you want us to create some clips for you please reach out to us and yeah thanks for having me wonderful thank you for being here like me on instagram thank you again for listening and i will see you next time

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